Federalized health care

This is a big issue in the US, but it is also in other countries too. What are your views?

I think it's a big mistake.

what do you mean by Federalized health care? is that when the government pays for your health care?
Officer David Harley

Basically yes. Although it really isn't the government paying for it. Where does the government get their money? Taxpayers.

This should not be an issue, since when is helping people bad?
Dr 31899

We still have to pay for using an ambulance and for medican in Canada, so its not completely free.


Officer David Harley

I am not saying that helping people is bad. I am saying that the bill presented here (in the US) will probably degrade the quality of of healthcare. THAT is a bad thing.

Do you think it is right to force people to "help others" as you put it? Because that is what is happening.

In my mind there are two separate issues. One being whether or not it is "fair" (Or whatever you want to call it) to make everybody pays for others' healthcare. The other is if the quality will suffer.

Overall you end up paying less so I don't see why you're saying it is a burden.

31899

You don't end up paying less. Certain people might pay less, but healthcare is not free. Doctors still need to be paid. Someone has to pay the bills. Taxpayers.

Compared to most countries the US has barely any tax, and the average person in there lifetime ends up paying a whole lot less. Is this actually about health care now Beef Taco or is it about change or the fear of any thing that is remotely more liberal or out of your comfort zone?
Dr. 31899

Since when did I say US health care was more expensive. I said that nothing will be cheaper if it goes to the public option. You obviously seem to disagree. I can't imagine why? Nobody has decided to work for free.

Dr 31899 wrote:Overall you end up paying less so I don't see why you're saying it is a burden.

31899

Compared to most countries the US has barely any tax, and the average person in there lifetime ends up paying a whole lot less.

Would you mind citing sour source? And if you look at the tax revenue as a percentage of GDP, it actually higher that a lot of countries.

Is this actually about health care now Beef Taco or is it about change
or the fear of any thing that is remotely more liberal or out of your
comfort zone?

Are we debating, or name calling?

Look at the chart on this page http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Taxes/P148855.asp (this took merely seconds to find)
Also I doubt it would increase tax more then 2%
That was a legitimate question. 

You missed some key details in this article.

First off, according to that chart, a sinlg person pays more in America than a quarter of the countries listed.

Second, there are only thirty countries listed! How can you compare to "most other countries" with such a small number.

Third, this article is from 2005. How about finding a current source.

And according to that, the GDP in 2005 was 24.2%, now it is 28.2%.

May i ask if you are an economist? Maybe i don't believe your opinion.

How does it matter why I decided to support my position as long as i have factual evidence. Even if my reasoning was "I hate Obama and every single liberal," I still could have a valid argument as long as I supply data. No I am not.

So they have no family to support and oh noes a quarter of the other countries, what about the other 3 quarters.
They known countries so the reader will know what the article is stating.
Taxes don't change much in 5 years.
No it says it was 29.5%
No and I doubt you are.

Mr. Taco wrote:I hate Obama and every single liberal

Then your reasons are flawed.
31899

Could you rephrase your first two sentences? I am having trouble understanding them.

Whether or not you think taxes change much, I have sources to back myself up.

In 2003, total federal state and local taxes
in the United States were 24.2% of our gross domestic product, ranking
among the lowest in the world, with only Mexico at 19.5% with a lower
tax rate. Along with the higher taxes, the difference between the U.S.
and some of the other industrialized countries are increased social
services, such as pensions and health-care funding.

IF you read the paragraph right after the chart you see this. And yes it does say 24.2%.

You missed my point. If you do not cite sources, I must presume that you came up with it on your own. And since you admit to not being an economist, your opinion doesn't carry much weight.

You missed my point again. I could be a liberal and disagree. I could be a conservative and disagree. My personal opinions don't matter as long as I can back myself up with sources.

I could say that everything that liberals stand for is wrong and stupid. And that therefore your reasoning is flawed. (I am not saying that, I am merely turning the tables around)

And I do not feel that way about Obama or liberals. The argument is not about us (the people) it is about the issues.

You did not site your source and I got the 29.5% right from the chart. 2 you are not using factual evidence. You are stating feelings and rambling on about nothing.


31899

First off. Shoot! I thought I posted this link. My apologies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP

I don't see where you are getting the 29.5% on the chart. And even if you are, I am talking about a different statistic than what is on the chart.

I am not talking about my feelings. I am saying why they don't matter. And if this is the "nothing" you are referring to, I call it defending against your accusations.

wikipedia anyone can edit so how do we know you didn't edit it to make you look like you know what your talking about?

ODH

Honestly I don't know much about how the editing process works. I think that it has to be screened or there is a waiting period or something. But as i said, I'm not sure.

and for another thing, if I did. I would have but it much more towards the top than where it is.

I will look for another source later though...

Either way your sources unreliable.
Dr 31899

you are saying that even if I find another source besides Wikipedia, that it will be unreliable? I have no response to that.

Look at table O.1 HERE (and it says 28.3%)

This one says 27.3%

This one says 26.8%

I think these, plus the two other links substantiate myself pretty well. And the slight difference in numbers, is due to the fact that they were from different years. I think the fact that all this information corresponds so well with wikipedia that it is at least mostly accurate.

I was talking about wikipedia when I said your source was unreliable. Remember those are just averages. If you want to complain about tax, maybe your government should spend less money on they're military and more money on they're people.
31899

Dr 31899 wrote:Compared to most countries the US has barely any tax, and the average person in there lifetime ends up paying a whole lot less. Is this actually about health care now Beef Taco or is it about change or the fear of any thing that is remotely more liberal or out of your comfort zone?
Dr. 31899

I am hardy complaining about taxes. (I don't pay any myself yet) I was merely pointing that Americans do not pay "hardly any taxes."

Put this is so off topic, sooo...back to the main topic! lol

I meant to say that wikipedia is unreliable. They aren't much different, and either way you still don't have much tax. 

Can your family afford health care?

31899

Whether or not you think we have a lot of taxes or not, it is the principle of the matter.

Some basic healthcare, yes. So what?

What of those who can not afford health care? Have you thought about them.

31899